Cincinnati, Dec 26th,1882
J H Carroll Esq, Cork, Ireland
My Dear Cousin,
I have your letter of the 12th with your record of your family. I am much obliged. I can add somewhat to your knowledge of the family though not much. Unfortunately my grandfather’s bible was lost on the voyage over in 1801. But there are traditions touching the family which have come down through my father and my uncles and aunts in which all agree. The family homestead was a stone house in Trumera (or Trumry or Trummery) variously spelled, which was a townland between Moira and Lisburn. The Carroll homestead was about one and a half miles North East of Moira and some four miles West-SouthWest of Belfast. Your cousin James Carroll wrote me, some ten years ago, that he had lately passed by and seen the house, yet standing. It is on the old turnpike road from Amargh to Lisburn and Belfast, and my father said, and others have stated that it is in a beautiful country, and handsomely situated. Your grandfather, and my father and grandfather were born in this house, and my family occupied it until they immigrated to this country early in the year 1801. The place was a farm of about one hundred acres, on which were several tenement houses, a blacksmith’s shop etc. My grandfather (Edward Carroll) was embarrassed financially by the condition of the country, as left by the rebellion of 1798 and thereabouts, and I believe, by himself being involved by endorsements and possibly by a lack of thrift. I fear this last characteristic has descended to his children and grandchildren- at all events the money making talent has not been developed among us, and we are generally poor.
But, to go back to Ireland. Your and my grandfather’s father was named Edward, and he it was, who built or first occupied the old stone house in Trumera. As his oldest son (your grandfather) was born in 1740; it is fair to calculate that he was born twenty five years earlier, taking his birth back to 1715, which corresponds with our traditions.
This Edward Carroll was bred, if not born, a Presbyterian, and married- say about 1739- a Quaker, named Sarah Bell, who was said to be of English origin. Their children, a list of whom I have, were brought up Quakers, and the father united with the Society of Friends before he died.
Forty years ago (or nearly) a then old lady, Mrs Elizabeth Dobbin, nee Carroll ( a relative, but exactly how near I never knew), told me that my great grandfather (Edward) got sick once on a ??????? and sent for his pastor, who failed to respond- which neglect made him angry and was the turning point of his conversion to be a Quaker. I dare say he was well on the way already, and merely used the incident as an excuse.
I am not certain, but I have reason to believe that our great grandmother, Sarah Bell, belonged to the colony of English Quakers who settled a Mooiallan some ten miles south southeast of Moira, in County Down. There is a branch of our relatives, named Bell living in this country sonce now in Indiana and at one time in Cincinnati, who are related to and intermarried with people of the name of Thakfield – a prominent name in the early history of Moiallan. So, without knowing certainly I have assumed that Sarah Bell was Moriallan. When our family came over in 1801 Abram Bell was established as a merchant in New York. He was my grandfather’s cousin and an Irishman. He is dead and his family lost sight of. There is a Mr Wakefield, an Episcopal Clergyman at Richmond, Indiana, who married first his cousin, a daughter of W??? Bell, from Ireland and afterwards another daughter his second wife.
I think I once wrote you what we in this country know by tradition, about the Carrolls that preceded our great grandfather Edward Carroll. We know nothing definitely about names or dates- but we are informed that our ancestor was a Colonel of a Regiment of Dragoons at the battle of the Boyne on the side of James II and was killed, and that two of his sons were captured and as was the custom then, were transplanted by the authorities to the North- one of them being brought up a Presbyterian and one an Episcopalian. Now at the Boyne, on the side of James was a Dragoon commanded by Col Francis Carroll, who was not killed at that battle. His name appears afterwards in the war between James and Wm,and he was among those who voluntarily entered the service of France after the treaty of Limmerick in 1691, in which service he was a Colonel in the celebrated Irish Brigade. He was killed at the Battle of Marsaglia, in Italy in 1693. But under him, at the Boyne, his first lieu Colonel was Thomas Carroll, according to D’Alton in his “Army List of King James” edition of 1862. Now Thomas Carroll’s name no longer appears in the subsequent history in the war after the Boyne- but it does appear from D’Alton, that a Thomas Carroll, of Kings co, was attainted in 1692 and his property confiscated. Dead men were attainted as well as live ones. The chief object being to get at their property. Kin, in his work entitled “The state of the Protestants in Ireland” gives a list of James’s Army, in which he puts down Terrence Carroll as Lieu.Col. in Col Francis Carroll’s Regiment and leaves the rank of Major vacant. but D’Alton, assisted by O’Callaghan, author of the History of the Irish Brigade, puts Terrance Carroll down as Major, and Thomas Carroll down as first Lieu Col, and one Boismoral as second Lieu.Col. It is most likely that the Major Terence Carroll was made Lieu.Col. after the Boyne, at which battle Thomas Carroll probably perished. From the names of officers in Col.Francis’ Reg it is evident the Regiment was mainly recruited in Kings Co the original home of the Carrolls.
Assuming this Thos Carroll to have been killed at the Boyne, that he was Lieu Col- was a Catholic was from Kings Co was of the ancient sept of O’Carroll- and was a man of standing and importance in his day his name and surrounding exactly fit into the tradition- a tradition handed down through a simple minded, plain honest people, who could not have invented it, and who knew nothing of the matter from books. In fact, I don’t think even father, who was a reading man, ever gave the least attention to the matter. It was the ladies of the family who especially talked about and transmitted this tradition in this country. Not one of them I presume, ever read a word upon the battle of the Boyne or regarding the family of O’Carroll of King’s county- and yet they had the matter pat and that matter works into the historical situation.
The fact that Thomas is so particularly a family name among us adds great force to the inference that this Lieu.Col. was our ancestor, while the circumstance that my grandfather was born about 1750- only 60 years after the Boyne- and that his father Edward was born 1715- only 20 after the Boyne takes the living testimony far back towards the time of the enquiry. The presumption is that our greatgrandfather (Edward) was son of one of one of the boys transplanted after the Boyne, and that his information was direct and accurate, and transmitted to my grandfather and his family. Even I knew an old lady- Mrs Dobbin- who recollected incidents about the Carrolls as far back as 1778- over one hundred years ago- which proves how few people it takes to transmit a knowledge of what happened less than two hundred years ago. This same Mrs Dobbin could easily have known and conversed with persons born as far back as 1690- she having been born about 1760.
Again, we know here that Charles Carroll of Carrollton, who signed our Declaration of Independence, was descended from the Carrolls of Kings Co, his grandfather having come hither about 1689- Charles Carroll had a brother Bishop Carroll and afterwards Archbishop in the Catholic Church. ???? I have a letter from Mrs Ellen Forsyth- whose mother was Mrs Dobbin, nee Carroll alluded to the above- in which she says she came to this country in 1805, being then seven years old, that she visited my grandfather’s house, having been neighbours in Ireland, and that it was understood then that my grandfather was a relative of Bishop Carroll. I simply cite this to show that the tradition of the family having come from King’s Co was an accepted one nearly eighty years ago. This Mrs Forsyth, whom I have often visited, was still living in Iowa a year or so ago, aged about 87.
As to the Carrolls of Kings Co- you doubtless know that they were of Moileian origin, were descended from Oliol Ollium and thence back- that they occupied a region of Country known as Ely O’Carroll, partly Tipperary and partly in kings Co- They were inter married with all the leading families of the region among others those of Kildare and Desmond. All of which is stated in nearly all the old Histories of Ireland. By the way, speaking of histories, I have lately read ” A Short History of the Kingdom of Ireland” by Halpole an Englishman, which is very interesting and instructive; and being by an Englishman can not be supposed to be partial to the “mere Irish”. I advise you to read it.
As to the matter of the forefathers of the Carrolls back of Edward Carroll, born 1715 or thereabouts I suppose nothing beyond tradition will be learned though if one had the leisure to search the records of the Presbyterian Church in and about Moira something might be discovered.
As I understand it, your grandfather and his brother Isaac left the family roof [????] early in life while my grandfather staid there til he was fifty years of age. Doubtless the old father during his life [?????] with my grandfather- so that [????? ?????] would have been more likely to get familiar with any family traditions than yours.
As to the Olliffe family- I have searched the city directories of occasional dates back to 1820 when the first was published, but have failed to find the name. I have quite a complete collection of the older directories and at present I do not know where else to turn. Possibly the m??? line may have died out and the family have changed their name by marriage. If I can get a clue, I shall take great pleasure in tracing the matter up for Cousin Theodore.
I greatly fear I have “bored” you by writing for your family record, as well as by dwelling so long on family matters. The investigations I have made have grown upon me as I have gone on, but I presume I know about all I shall ever learn, as I have no hope of making any personal search in Ireland- even were there anything to be found.
My grandfather was a strongly built man, of some five feet ten inches high- a bright and cheerful disposition- and a character above approach: so I have been told by those who knew him. He died about 82 years of age, of apoplexy- when I was a child. I never saw him.
I have not heard from Nannie lately, but presume that she has got as far as Ireland on her way home.
My wife sends her affectionate sympathy to you as the recipient of this long and tiresome letter.
Our son, Eugine, will probably resign next summer- as Congress has passed a law which will cut off promotion for several years. It will hardly pay to have him remain a Midshipman eight or ten years.
With the compliments of the season from all to all. I remain your affectionate cousin.
Robt.W.Carroll
Carroll Family History 